Bush Approved Phone Spying on Americans After 911

[MxRob]

You're preaching to the converted here   

Haha aint that the truth DAIC. :bigsmile:

As far as the other liberal boogieman drivel in your post, I'll chalk that up also to you only listening to right-wing pitchmen. It really won't kill you to open you eyes and your mind to reality sometimes.

If reality is what you a looking for than lets look at it for a minute.

We still have troops in Afganistan as we speak. If we have given up looking for Osama then why are we still there?

Saddam had it coming to him regardless of when we decided to invade Iraq. Was it a coincidence that it happened right after 9-11, not in my eyes so I agree with you there that it was preplanned. So what it needed to be done, Saddam was out of control. As far as the other terrorist groups go they all seem to have had prior ties to Al Queda before the war so there isnt anything to argue about there.

Hell while we are over there lets stomp Syria and Iran. It looks like they are next on the hit list anyway so lets do it. I guess the liberals need to start planning their rebuttal against it. I can already hear the garbage pouring out of their mouths already. First they will say yes when congress votes to go to war. Then we will hear "We cant win we need to withdraw immediately"........I sure hope it comes while Bush is still in office. We need to spend more money on defense so we can keep our countries machine shops up and running. If the liberals get in or even worse Hillary gets elected we are in for a bumpy ride and most likely another recession. God, Hillary as president that is some scary shite.

Oh as far the media personalities go they do make some valid points but you have to take them with a grain of salt. Just as you do with the rest of the others in the "liberal controlled media". I listen to both sides and choose to side with the conservative views.

Anyway I wish Redneck was around more, it feels kinda lonely around here BTW, am I the only gun totin republican left at BK besides Red? Not that there was ever many others before. haha

[DudeAsInCool]

MxRob @ Dec 20 2005, 10:40 PM If reality is what you a looking for than lets look at it for a minute.

The reality is that the Bush administration repeatedly lied to the American people about the reasons for going to war in Iraq.

MxRob @ Dec 20 2005, 10:40 PM  We still have troops in Afganistan as we speak. If we have given up looking for Osama then why are we still there?

Exactly...what the hell are we doing there. We should be helping them rebuild their infrastructure. We should be helping make it a shining example to the world. Are you suggesting the soldiers there are all waiting for the order several years later to find Bin Laden? The soldiers remaining are to provide a presence.

MxRob @ Dec 20 2005, 10:40 PM Saddam had it coming to him regardless of when we decided to invade Iraq.

So we did we have to go it alone? Why did we have to trump up charges of WMD's and use the paranoia left over from 911 as a rationale to go there? What we should have done is built an international coalition and worked together with the rest of the world community. Here we are, hundreds of billions of dollars later, and Sadam is removed--but ourr soldiers are dying every day. And Al Quida wasn't there until after we arrived.

MxRob @ Dec 20 2005, 10:40 PM As far as the other terrorist groups go they all seem to have had prior ties to Al Queda before the war so there isnt anything to argue about there. 

Seem to? Show us some examples - you are way off base.

  MxRob @ Dec 20 2005, 10:40 PM  Hell while we are over there lets stomp Syria and Iran. It looks like they are next on the hit list anyway so lets do it. I guess the liberals need to start planning their rebuttal against it. I can already hear the garbage pouring out of their mouths already. First they will say yes when congress votes to go to war. Then we will hear "We cant win we need to withdraw immediately"........ 

Your suggestion is insane. There isn't any politician in Washington recommending we expanding warfare in the middle east. If you are so concerned, why not arm up youself and go over there?

MxRob @ Dec 20 2005, 10:40 PM I sure hope it comes while Bush is still in office. We need to spend more money on defense so we can keep our countries machine shops up and running.

Instigating war on other countries is not defensive.

MxRob @ Dec 20 2005, 10:40 PM  If the liberals get in or even worse Hillary gets elected we are in for a bumpy ride and most likely another recession.

There was no recession under Bill Clinton. On what basis, have you deducted this nonsense.

MxRob @ Dec 20 2005, 10:40 PM Just as you do with the rest of the others in the "liberal controlled media". I listen to both sides and choose to side with the conservative views.

The media is owned by conservatives and driven by stock value. There are liberal reporters in greater numbers, but they dont control the news. Where the fuck was the NY Times when the Bush Administration was spying on American citizens illegally? Where was the NYTimes on WMD's? Where is the NYTimes on the rigged elections? Had they truly investigated and reported properly, George Bush would not be President today.

Any of that good weed your smoking left?

[Kooperman]

If reality is what you a looking for than lets look at it for a minute.

We still have troops in Afganistan as we speak. If we have given up looking for Osama then why are we still there?

Mx, reality is that if we really wanted to find the man resposible for the greatest act of terrorism ever perpetrated on the United States, the man who killed around 3000 people in New York City...then we wouldn't have skipped out to Iraq, leaving a mere token force in Afghanistan. The plan all along was Iraq...revenge and oil, and a constant war lasting for decades...setting up your beloved Patriot Act, which is being blocked by Republicans, not Democrats. The Democrats are the minority party, remember?

The Bush administration is literally burning the constitution in their lust for power and secrecy, trampling on the very values that many generations of Americans have fought and died for. It's a sad era for this country, one that won't be improved upon until true patriotic Americans, both Democrat and Republican, stand up to the corruption that is controlling our government.

[Wolfie]

Hell while we are over there lets stomp Syria and Iran. It looks like they are next on the hit list anyway so lets do it. I guess the liberals need to start planning their rebuttal against it.

The liberals won't have rebut in face misleading intelligence (WMDs anyone?), if the Bushies don't lead us into an even more stupid war than the last one . We are already spread thin as it is and the military is having a hard time making up its recruitment quota. Unless they bring back the draft I don't see them having enough troops to occupy one of those countries (Iran and Syria). If you think Iraq is hell with the insurgency, Iran will be 100 time worse. The Sunni minority are the ones giving us trouble in Iraq. The Shiite majority suppose be on our side. The potential insurgency in Iran will be comprised of 90 percent of the population. They won't even need al queda bring in foreign fighters over there. If Israel is having nightmares about Iran nuclear capabilities, they are welcome do something about it themselves. I am so sick these idiots trying to kill each over there and dragging our butts into it.

Also, its not like Operation "Where is Osama?" and "Find the IED" is gonna end anytime soon. We still need troops in those countries too, right? Maybe we should wait until we pull out one of these countries before we declare war on another one?

On personal note Rob, you are doing a wonderful job holding up conservative end of the forum, regardless of Red's slacking. :bigsmile: ;)

[Kooperman]

Here's a good article about Bush and the constitution, taken from a conservative newspaper, The Washington Times. The author is Bruce Fein....here are his credentials:

Bruce Fein is a constitutional lawyer and international consultant with Bruce Fein & Associates and The Lichfield Group. He was associate deputy attorney general under President Ronald Reagan.

http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/bfein.htm

[slum_goddess]

where's Osama? duh...we dunno, we let him slip away a few years back at Tora Bora.

[slum_goddess]

It’s funny how the democrats can take a matter of national security and turn it into a smear campaign of the Bush administration.

what's even funnier is that the preznit ignored that 6. august '01 PDB 'osama determined to strike w/i the US' :)

[MxRob]

Any of that good weed your smoking left?

Yeah, here ya go bud "Rob passes fatty to DAIC" :smokin:

On personal note Rob, you are doing a wonderful job holding up conservative end of the forum, regardless of Red's slacking. 

Thanks Wolfie haha

Honestly, I dont keep up with all of the facts and or myths as much as you all do. I need to do some more homework but dont take this as me backing down to the liberals. I wont do it never.

[Amber]

I honestly do not have a problem with it. I for one think they've always been listening and just haven't informed the public....Hell, I'd go so far to say it's an ignorant idea TO INFORM the public....now the people they are tracking know it...DUH! I could sit here and spew reasons to do it or not to do it but that's what I goto class for everyday...to find out just how fucked up our world is. We have had so many of our constitutional rights buggered with over the years that noone even cares about it anymore...it's just a piece of paper.

[Kooperman]

I honestly do not have a problem with it.......... We have had so many of our constitutional rights buggered with over the years that noone even cares about it anymore...it's just a piece of paper.

Congratulations....someone else feels the same way as you do.

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publ...icle_7779.shtml

[MxRob]

Funny that there wasnt any media around when that meeting took place. Who actually knows what was actually said behind closed doors. If anybody believes that politicans (republican or democrat) do not speak shit off the record you have got another thing coming.

If Bush actually said it and truthly meant it then the same stands for him. I bet something was taken out of context if he actually did say something regarding it. Seeing that it was taken from an anti-capitol website I just dont believe it.

One thing I dont understand is why the liberals seem to want to undermine the renewal of the Patriot Act and any other means we have of fighting "The War on Terror". I haven't seen anyone from the left even remotely support the war let alone come up with any ideas on how to fight it. They seem to go out of their way to undermine every effort that the Bush adminstration has put forth since 9-11. This to me is a very unpatriotic stance in so many different ways it sickens me. I would even go as far to say that it is a form of treason towards our great nation.

On another note for any American that firmly feels the constitution is just a piece of paper, I will personally pay your way to fly your ass out of the country forever.

[Kooperman]

One thing I dont understand is why the liberals seem to want to undermine the renewal of the Patriot Act and any other means we have of fighting "The War on Terror". I haven't seen anyone from the left even remotely support the war let alone come up with any ideas on how to fight it.

As I said before, the Democrats are the minority party...anything the Republicans want to pass, they can pass....they have a majority of the votes. There are 4 Republicans who kept the Patriot Act from passing. It has now been extended for 6 months in a compromise agreement.

And I'll explain once more that President Bush had almost universal support after 9/11 when he swore that he'd find Osama Bin Laden and nail his hide to the wall. You don't mass murder Americans and get away with it......but he did. George W. Bush used the deaths of nearly 3,000 people as an excuse to get into position to invade a country that had no terrorists threatening us, in the process claiming that he didn't care about Osama any more....

On top of that he used information he KNEW was false to get us into Iraq. That's why the MAJORITY of Americans don't support this war. The troops are the ones who have had to suffer the most because of these lies. The president has not supported them with enough armor, equipment and numbers. He's made them pull double and triple tours until they're exhausted. He's shortchanged them financially and medically. What kind of leader does that?

[DudeAsInCool]

Judges on Surveillance Court To Be Briefed on Spy Program

The presiding judge of a secret court that oversees government surveillance in espionage and terrorism cases is arranging a classified briefing for her fellow judges to address their concerns about the legality of President Bush's domestic spying program, according to several intelligence and government sources.

Several members of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court said in interviews that they want to know why the administration believed secretly listening in on telephone calls and reading e-mails of U.S. citizens without court authorization was legal. Some of the judges said they are particularly concerned that information gleaned from the president's eavesdropping program may have been improperly used to gain authorized wiretaps from their court.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...2102326_pf.html

[Kooperman]

One thing I dont understand is why the liberals seem to want to undermine the renewal of the Patriot Act and any other means we have of fighting "The War on Terror".

The Senate approved a 6 month extension of the Patriot Act....but today the House only allowed a one month extension.....because of a Republican.

House OKs One-Month Patriot Act Extension

By LAURIE KELLMAN, Associated Press Writer

9 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - The House passed a one-month extension of the Patriot Act on Thursday and sent it to the Senate for final action as Congress scrambled to prevent expiration of anti-terror law enforcement provisions on Dec. 31.

Approval came on a voice vote in a nearly empty chamber after Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, refused to agree to a six-month extension the Senate had cleared several hours earlier.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051222/ap_on_go_co/patriot_act

[MxRob]

The troops are the ones who have had to suffer the most because of these lies. The president has not supported them with enough armor, equipment and numbers. He's made them pull double and triple tours until they're exhausted. He's shortchanged them financially and medically. What kind of leader does that?

Well I figured that was the response I would get back. I listen to several radio personalities during the week to hear different views of people out there that call in. Some are from the left, some from the right, and some are neutral so there are plenty of views to compare.

The Laura Ingram show in particular has had several American Soldiers calling in over the last few weeks to clear the air so to speak. Not one of them has said they have any remorse about the war regardless of the reason they were sent there. If anything they are in good spirits and state over an over again about the praise the Iraqi citizens show them and how proud they are to protect our country from overseas.

I don’t believe that Bush has shortchanged them financially or medically in any possible way. I know there were some talks about the armor issue in the beginning of the war but that was promptly resolved. Who are these soldiers that are complaining about these issues?

[Kooperman]

Well I figured that was the response I would get back. I listen to several radio personalities during the week to hear different views of people out there that call in. Some are from the left, some from the right, and some are neutral so there are plenty of views to compare.

The Laura Ingram show in particular has had several American Soldiers calling in over the last few weeks to clear the air so to speak. Not one of them has said they have any remorse about the war regardless of the reason they were sent there. If anything they are in good spirits and state over an over again about the praise the Iraqi citizens show them and how proud they are to protect our country from overseas. 

I don’t believe that Bush has shortchanged them financially or medically in any possible way. I know there were some talks about the armor issue in the beginning of the war but that was promptly resolved. Who are these soldiers that are complaining about these issues?

Well, MX, since you know it all from a variety of sources like Laura Ingram there's no point in wasting my time with you. But if you should ever decide to do a google or yahoo search of newspapers you will find an entire world you never knew existed. It's a world in which parents of soldiers have to buy armor for their children in Iraq....it's a world where soldiers in Iraq plunder through junkyards trying to find scraps of metal to put on their vehicles...it's a world in which reserve soldiers are losing their homes and families because of financial hardship....a world in which wounded soldiers are frequently having to wait for the treatment they need back in the United States. The Stepford Army that Laura Ingram and Rush Limbaugh tell of has none of these things....that world is a Norman Rockwell painting of handsome men and women with clean uniforms and no scars. If you should ever decide to get out of the Bush bubble, sit down before you read these stories....they'll break your heart.

I leave you with a story from the Wall Street Journal:

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB113....html?mod=blogs

[Kooperman]

and one a few weeks old from MSNBC:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9524109

[Kooperman]

Here's a story about the bodies of soldiers being sent home as freight on commercial airlines:

http://www.10news.com/news/5504608/detail.html

[Kooperman]

Here's a story about how wounded vets have to fight for compensation:

http://www.suntimes.com/special_sections/v...ws-wvets03.html

[MxRob]

Some other top Republicans have defended the president's right to conduct surveillance outside congressionally mandated rules. Sen. Trent Lott of Mississippi summarized the argument: "I want my security first," he told reporters when news of the program broke last week. "I will deal with all the details after that."

Prominent neoconservatives William Kristol and Gary Schmitt opined earlier this week that the president has the authority to collect foreign intelligence "as he sees fit," even within the U.S. And no matter how much people might wish it, they wrote, "Congress cannot legislate for every contingency."

Vice President Dick Cheney portrayed the dispute as one entirely about presidential power. "I believe in a strong, robust executive authority, and I think that the world we live in demands it," he told reporters while traveling abroad on Tuesday.

I used Ingram as sort of a catalyst to stir you up a little or humor you as you received it . I take most of what she and the other media puppets like her say with a grain of salt. For the record I do read google news and several other online news sources so I am not as naive as you may think.

I think I am going to put this to rest for now as we all just seem to keep wasting our time in this thread with our views whether they are right or wrong. I have to get back to work since I have been pissing around on the net all day. Must be the holiday's as I dont feel like working

Happy Holidays to ya Bud

Rob

[Kooperman]

And Merry Christmas to you MX. My family will be celebrating our Christmas tomorrow here....then have to sneak 3 bicycles over to step-daughter's house Christmas Eve night to hand over to Santa....he gets all the credit as usual.

Now, I have to go cook a turkey tonight, then a ham tomorrow morning.

As to political posts here....the thing I always remember is that we're all working toward the same goals, no matter what political party we support, if any. I look forward to the day when the hatred that TV and radio commentators thrive on (it keeps them in business) disappears, and those talking heads have to find other employment.

[Amber]

Congratulations....someone else feels the same way as you do.

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publ...icle_7779.shtml

Whoa there mister...you mistook what I said. I do not feel that way. I meant that that's how people see it anymore. I still don't have a problem with the tapping of the lines.

[MxRob]

And Merry Christmas to you MX. My family will be celebrating our Christmas tomorrow here....then have to sneak 3 bicycles over to step-daughter's house Christmas Eve night to hand over to Santa....he gets all the credit as usual.

Now, I have to go cook a turkey tonight, then a ham tomorrow morning.

As to political posts here....the thing I always remember is that we're all working toward the same goals, no matter what political party we support, if any. I look forward to the day when the hatred that TV and radio commentators thrive on (it keeps them in business) disappears, and those talking heads have to find other employment.

:Here's to you:

Right on Koop, we had our Christmas last Sunday with the extended family and are having it with my immediate this weekend. It will be quiet though without the usual crew but that may be good for a change.

[DudeAsInCool]

NY Times - Its much worse than you think

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/24/politics...xsRSffsMj4tIw4Q

Walll Street's 'Baron' Magazine Editorial Asks for Impeachment!

[DudeAsInCool]

Uncivil Liberties

http://www.slate.com/id/2132983/