Israel Lebanon Conflict Thread

[DudeAsInCool]

another great move from the US and Israel goverments.

All I can say is, "look what you've done now!"

The US did not start this round of blood.

[method77]

Do you really belive that if the US didn't approve then Israel would go ahead?

Anyway, US openly said that they are not against it.

[DudeAsInCool]

Do you really belive that if the US didn't approve then Israel would go ahead?

Anyway, US openly said that they are not against it.

The US marches lockstep with Israel on almost everything--its part of the US's strategy in the Middle East--and a strategy that I dont approve of.

But they did not start this round--the Hezzies did

[method77]

no they did not

[DudeAsInCool]

no they did not

the israeli soldiers werent kidnapped? the whole world sided with Israel about this--the hezzies were the provocateurs, no question

[method77]

No. The reason the Israelis att5acked is because they are fucked up. Same goes for the other side.

Like I've said before, satire can sometime be the best way to explain things. Just watch this from Jon Stewart. Another great american show

[Malicious Intent]

Dude, Israel were bombing and killing innocent people in Lebanon in the days leading up to the capture of the Israeli soldiers. Why not start your timeline of who started this round of blood 7 days earlier? Start it with Israel capturing Hezbollah soldiers.

If you start the timeline there, you will ignore why Israel dropped those bombs. Go back from there and you will see why Israel were attacked.

There is no start of the round - it is an on going crisis. Israel have just used the latest return fire as an excuse for their actions.

[DudeAsInCool]

It's hard to keep up with all the nonsense over there, but if you say so, ok. That makes me even more confused as to why a number of Arab countries were critical of the Hezzies...and only recently have decided to back them in full. And here is a typical write up, and this comes from the New Yorker and Wikipedia as to what set the current events off in the Middle East - are you suggesting I shouldn't trust these sources?

"Because there are no physical limits on its size, Wikipedia can aspire to be all-inclusive. It is also perfectly configured to be current: there are detailed entries for each of the twelve finalists on this season’s “American Idol,” and the article on the “2006 Israel-Lebanon Conflict” has been edited more than four thousand times since it was created, on July 12th, six hours after Hezbollah militants ignited the hostilities by kidnapping two Israeli soldiers."

The situation is hopeless. I see no merit to either side--they are no different than the nut who went off today in to a Jewish synagogue today in Seattle:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5226390.stm

[method77]

wikipedia is not to be trusted in political and similar discussions

[Malicious Intent]

Wiki starts their timeline in 1947!

Sure the capture of the Israeli soldiers set everything in motion, but arguably because the Israelis planned it that way. They've wanted this war since 2004 at least when they planned it.

If Hezbollah were the ignition, what was the fuse and bomb?

Arab and Persian countries are/were critical of Hezbollah because, believe it or not, Arabs and Persians are exactly like us. They have individual political and religious views and alliances, different beliefs about church and state and different perspectives on the world. Also like us, views change based on current events. Take a look at that interview I linked to - that can help answer some of the questions about Hazbollah's support.

[DudeAsInCool]

Wiki starts their timeline in 1947!

...the direct quote came from the New Yorker..should I dismiss that?

Sure the capture of the Israeli soldiers set everything in motion, but arguably because the Israelis planned it that way. They've wanted this war since 2004 at least when they planned it.

The Israeli's planned the capture of their own soldiers?

If Hezbollah were the ignition, what was the fuse and bomb?

Arab and Persian countries are/were critical of Hezbollah because, believe it or not, Arabs and Persians are exactly like us. They have individual political and religious views and alliances, different beliefs about church and state and different perspectives on the world. Also like us, views change based on current events. Take a look at that interview I linked to - that can help answer some of the questions about Hazbollah's support.

I know the conflict has been going on forever. But I cannot believe my ears that I'm being told that the Hezbollah did not ignite the current crisis, when everything I've read says otherwise.

Happy to read other reports--but frankly, as you know, I think both sides are in the wrong. Am I wrong to read inbetween the lines on the thread that some people are sympathizing with Hazbollah? If so, what's to like about them?

[method77]

The Israeli's planned the capture of their own soldiers?

No Dude. They used that as a reason to start that security zone they had in the past.

when everything I've read says otherwise

Most articles and blogs I read say exactly what Mal said

[DudeAsInCool]

Well here's my peace plan. Build a stadium around the Middle East. Let whomever wants to participate (that includes foreigners and other instigators) have at it and settle whatever once and for all. I'm tired of reading about their problems, particularly when no on seems to want to solve them.

[Malicious Intent]

Well here's my peace plan. Build a stadium around the Middle East. Let whomever wants to participate (that includes foreigners and other instigators) have at it and settle whatever once and for all. I'm tired of reading about their problems, particularly when no on seems to want to solve them.

Keep it how it is then?

[DudeAsInCool]

Keep it how it is then?

???

[Malicious Intent]

We have the stadium (international media) and we most definately have a free-for-all with plenty of outsiders and instigators weighing in.

[DudeAsInCool]

We have the stadium (international media) and we most definately have a free-for-all with plenty of outsiders and instigators weighing in.

We just need the sticks and stones for the competitors--we take the concessions stand and tshirts, donate the profits to charity.

There are solutions to this mess:

1) People Need to talk

2) People Need to give and talk

3) The Weapons sellers need to be banned

4) Foreign aid instead of weapons

.....etc...

[DudeAsInCool]

Meanwhile, diplomatic efforts to halt the violence continued in Jerusalem. U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice dined with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert on Saturday night, according to the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv. Hours earlier, Israel rejected a U.N. call for a three-day cease-fire.

Source: Yahoo News

[method77]

Meanwhile, diplomatic efforts to halt the violence continued in Jerusalem. U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice dined with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert on Saturday night, according to the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv. Hours earlier, Israel rejected a U.N. call for a three-day cease-fire.

Source: Yahoo News

great but where is Hesbollah's opinion in all this talk and dinner stuff?

[DudeAsInCool]

great but where is Hesbollah's opinion in all this talk and dinner stuff?

they are open to the ceasefire

[KiwiCoromandel]

Israeli air strike kills 51......

An Israeli air strike killed at least 51 Lebanese civilians, including 23 children, in the southern village of Qana today, in the bloodiest single attack during Israel's 19-day-old war on Hezbollah.

The attack prompted the Lebanese government to cancel a planned visit to Beirut by US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora said he would hold no negotiations before a ceasefire and officials said they had told Rice to stay away from Beirut until the fighting stopped.

Siniora denounced "Israeli war criminals". He demanded an immediate, unconditional ceasefire and an international investigation into "Israeli massacres".

The air strike, whose target was not immediately clear, occurred as Rice was in Jerusalem on a mission to persuade Israel and Lebanon to agree on an international force to deploy on the border.

Israel's offensive in Lebanon will continue, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told his cabinet today.

Mothers embraced their dead children in shock today as rescue workers tackled the rubble and dust of buildings flattened by the raids...

more........

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/israeli-a...4197998127.html

image:A Red Cross rescuer worker walks past dead bodies after Israeli air strikes on the southern Lebanese village of Qana.

[method77]

Where exactly were those Israeli soldiers when Hezbollah captured them?

make sure you read the comments

[DudeAsInCool]

Where exactly were those Israeli soldiers when Hezbollah captured them?

make sure you read the comments

Interesting but inconclusive. But my antennaes are up...

Israeli air strike kills 51......

An Israeli air strike killed at least 51 Lebanese civilians, including 23 children, in the southern village of Qana today, in the bloodiest single attack during Israel's 19-day-old war on Hezbollah.

Disgusting...

[DudeAsInCool]

U.S.: Israel OKs 48-Hour Air Activity Halt

Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:16 PM EDT

JERUSALEM — Israel suspended air attacks on south Lebanon for 48 hours in the face of widespread outrage over an airstrike Sunday that killed at least 56 Lebanese, almost all of them women and children, when it leveled a building where they had taken shelter.

The announcement — made by a State Department spokesman with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in Jerusalem — appeared to reflect American pressure on Israel to make some concession after the strike.

Read more at Newsvine

[KiwiCoromandel]

Israelis grapple with the high cost of Qana......

AS ISRAELI leaders sought to stave off blame for Sunday's Qana bombing, they were not merely protecting their consciences but trying to persuade the nation to tolerate this conflict's terrible price.

Israel has expressed regret and said it would halt air strikes for 48 hours, although it is expected to expand its ground campaign in southern Lebanon, pushing up to 5000 soldiers deep into the area.

Despite Israel's regrets, it remains to be seen whether the bombing - which killed up to 60 people, including women and children - will join a long history of tragic disasters that have turned public opinion and emerged as symbols of a faltering campaign.

So far, the Israeli public has remained overwhelmingly supportive of this second Lebanon war. Even in the bomb shelters in Israel's north, where some families have been living underground for almost three weeks, the prevailing view is that they are willing to put their lives on hold now to ensure they do not have to descend again in six months or a year.

In big cities, there have been protests against the war but they have attracted, at most, a few thousand

people, mostly from left-wing and Arab political parties. The group that led the mass demonstrations against the first Lebanon war, Peace Now, has refused to join the protests.

But Israel's military history is littered with tragic mistakes that have, in an instant, changed the perceptions of campaigns that had broad public support.

more......

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2006/07/31/1154198074335.html

image:Toys lie among the ruins of a house in Qana.