Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 911 Thread

[Redneck4sure]

Hey Dude, I am going out of town tomorrow and won't be back until Sunday. Please leave the right wingers alone until I get back. Goodnight and see y'all in a few days. :rolleyes:

[DudeAsInCool]

Have fun, Red. I will try and continue to stir things up at the little red website while you are gone

***

Here is today's NYTimes review by A.O. Scott.

Unruly Scorn Leaves Room for Restraint, but Not a Lot

Respect for the president is a longstanding American tradition and one that is still very much alive, as the weeklong national obsequies for Ronald Reagan recently proved. But there is also an opposing tradition of holding up our presidents, especially while they are in office, to ridicule and scorn.

Which is to say that while Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11"will be properly debated on the basis of its factual claims and cinematic techniques, it should first of all be appreciated as a high-spirited and unruly exercise in democratic self-expression. Mixing sober outrage with mischievous humor and blithely trampling the boundary between documentary and demagoguery, Mr. Moore takes wholesale aim at the Bush administration, whose tenure has been distinguished, in his view, by unparalleled and unmitigated arrogance, mendacity and incompetence.

That Mr. Moore does not like Mr. Bush will hardly come as news. "Fahrenheit 9/11," which opens in Manhattan today and in the rest of the country on Friday, is many things: a partisan rallying cry, an angry polemic, a muckraking inquisition into the use and abuse of power. But one thing it is not is a fair and nuanced picture of the president and his policies. What did you expect? Mr. Moore is often impolite, rarely subtle and occasionally unwise. He can be obnoxious, tendentious and maddeningly self-contradictory. He can drive even his most ardent admirers crazy. He is a credit to the republic.

While his new film, awarded the top prize at the Cannes International Film Festival this year, has been likened to an op-ed column, it might more accurately be said to resemble an editorial cartoon. Mr. Moore uses archival video images, rapid-fire editing and playful musical cues to create an exaggerated, satirical likeness of his targets. The president and his team have obliged him by looking sinister and ridiculous on camera.

Paul D. Wolfowitz shares his icky hair-care secrets (a black plastic comb and a great deal of saliva); John Ashcroft raptly croons a patriotic ballad of his own composition; Mr. Bush, when he is not blundering through the thickets of his native tongue, projects an air of shallow self-confidence.

Through it all, Mr. Moore provides sardonic commentary, to which the soundtrack adds nudges and winks. As the camera pans across copies of Mr. Bush's records from the Texas Air National Guard, and Mr. Moore reads that the future president was suspended for missing a medical examination, we hear a familiar electric guitar riff; it takes you a moment to remember that it comes from a song called "Cocaine."

Not that Mr. Moore is kidding around. Perhaps because of the scale and gravity of the subject of "Fahrenheit 9/11," perhaps because his own celebrity has made the man-in-the-street pose harder to sustain, Mr. Moore's trademark pranks and interventions are not as much in evidence as in earlier films. He does commandeer an ice cream truck to drive around Washington, reading the U.S.A. Patriot Act through a loudspeaker (after learning that few of the lawmakers who voted for it had actually read it), and he does stand outside the Capitol trying to persuade members of Congress to enlist their children in the armed forces. (The contortion that one legislator performs to avoid shaking Mr. Moore's hand is an amusing moment of found slapstick.)

Mostly, though, he sifts through the public record, constructing a chronicle of misrule that stretches from the Florida recount to the events of this spring. His case is synthetic rather than comprehensive, and it is not always internally consistent. He dwells on the connections between the Bush family and the Saudi Arabian elite (including the bin Laden family), and while he creates a strong impression of unseemly coziness, his larger point is not altogether clear.

After you leave the theater, some questions are likely to linger about Mr. Moore's views on the war in Afghanistan, about whether he thinks the homeland security program has been too intrusive or not intrusive enough, and about how he thinks the government should have responded to the murderous jihadists who attacked the United States on Sept. 11.

You can read the full review here:

http://movies2.nytimes.com/2004/06/23/movi...FAHR.html?8hpib

[DudeAsInCool]

Mr. Moore reads that the future president was suspended for missing a medical examination, we hear a familiar electric guitar riff; it takes you a moment to remember that it comes from a song called "Cocaine."

Moore shows Bush playing golf, and then says "We have a duty and a job to do to end terrorism. Now watch this drive.

He ...commandeer(s)  an ice cream truck to drive around Washington, reading the U.S.A. Patriot Act through a loudspeaker (after learning that few of the lawmakers who voted for it had actually read it), and he does stand outside the Capitol trying to persuade members of Congress to enlist their children in the armed forces. (The contortion that one legislator performs to avoid shaking Mr. Moore's hand is an amusing moment of found slapstick.)

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

See the congressman video here: http://www.ifilm.com/filmdetail?ifilmid=2642193

[slum_goddess]

I would like to know what media your watching..

BBC-world is the only thing i can watch/understand here in DE. i should've said the online big media newspapers like NYTimes (up to last week), NYDaily news, Washington Post, LA Times, like that.

[Kooperman]

June 24, 2004

‘Fahrenheit 9/11’ ban?

Ads for Moore’s movie could be stopped on July 30

By Alexander Bolton

Michael Moore may be prevented from advertising his controversial new movie, “Fahrenheit 9/11,” on television or radio after July 30 if the Federal Election Commission (FEC) today accepts the legal advice of its general counsel.

At the same time, a Republican-allied 527 soft-money group is preparing to file a complaint against Moore’s film with the FEC for violating campaign-finance law.

In a draft advisory opinion placed on the FEC’s agenda for today’s meeting, the agency’s general counsel states that political documentary filmmakers may not air television or radio ads referring to federal candidates within 30 days of a primary election or 60 days of a general election.

The opinion is generated under the new McCain-Feingold campaign-finance law, which prohibits corporate-funded ads that identify a federal candidate before a primary or general election.

The proscription is broadly defined. Section 100.29 of the federal election regulations defines restricted corporate-funded ads as those that identify a candidate by his “name, nickname, photograph or drawing” or make it “otherwise apparent through an unambiguous reference.”

Should the six members of the FEC vote to approve the counsel’s opinion, it could put a serious crimp on Moore’s promotion efforts. The flavor of the movie was encapsulated by a recent review in The Boston Globe as “the case against George W. Bush, a fat compendium of previously reported crimes, errors, sins, and grievances delivered in the director’s patented tone of vaudevillian social outrage.”

The FEC ruling may also affect promotion of a slew of other upcoming political documentaries and films, such as “Uncovered: The Whole Truth About the Iraq War,” which opens in August, “The Corporation,” about democratic institutions being subsumed by the corporate agenda, or “Silver City,” a recently finished film by John Sayles that criticizes the Bush administration.

Another film, “The Hunting of the President,” which investigates whether Bill Clinton was the victim of a vast conspiracy, could be subject to regulations if it mentions Bush or members of Congress in its ads.

Since the FEC considers the Republican presidential convention scheduled to begin Aug. 30 a national political primary in which Bush is a candidate, Moore and other politically oriented filmmakers could not air any ad mentioning Bush after July 30.

That could make advertising for the film after July difficult since it is all about the Bush administration and what Moore regards as its mishandling of the war on terrorism and the decision to invade Iraq.

After the convention, ads for political films that mention Bush or any other federal candidate would be subject to the restrictions on all corporate communications within 60 days of the Nov. 2 general election.

“Fahrenheit 9/11” opens nationally tomorrow.

The film’s distributor, Lions Gate Films, an incorporated organization, would almost certainly pay for its broadcast promotions.

David Bossie, the president of Citizens United, plans to allege that “Fahrenheit 9/11” violates federal election law, arguing that “Moore has publicly indicated his goal is to impact this election season.”

Bossie had planned to file a complaint with the FEC yesterday but postponed action because his lawyers want to review it at the last minute, said Summer Stitz, a spokeswoman for Bossie’s group.

“I don’t think much of Michael Moore or his two-hour political advertisement — that’s all it is,” Bossie said. “He uses all of these words to make it look like he makes documentaries, but it’s the furthest thing from the truth. Documentaries tend to be fact-based.”

Sarah Greenberg, a spokeswoman for Lions Gate Films who is serving as Moore’s spokeswoman, did not return a call for comment.

The FEC counsel’s draft advisory opinion responded to a request for guidance from David Hardy, a documentary film producer with the Bill of Rights Educational Foundation. Hardy asked whether he could air broadcast ads that refer to congressional officeholders who appear in his documentary.

At issue in the FEC’s opinion is whether documentary films qualify for a “media exemption,” which allows members of the press to discuss political candidates freely in the days before an election.

In its opinion, the general counsel wrote, “In McConnell vs. FEC … (2003) the [supreme] Court described the media exemption as ‘narrow’ and drew a distinction between ‘corporations that are part of the media industry’ as opposed to ‘other corporations that are not involved in the regular business of imparting news to the public.’”

“The radio and television commercials that you describe in your request would be electioneering communications,” the counsel concluded. “The proposed commercials would refer to at least one presidential candidate. … They would also be publicly distributed because you intend to pay a radio station and perhaps a television station to air or broadcast your commercials. … Finally, they would reach 50,000 people within 30 days of a national nominating convention and or the general election.”

However, one commissioner, Michael Toner, has a different view of what restrictions may be placed on political films.

“I think there’s evidence that when Congress created the press exemption they intended for it to cover media in all its forms,” said Toner. “If a documentary produced by an independent company would be subject to restriction or, equally important, if efforts to promote the documentary would be subject to restriction, I think that is very problematic.”

http://www.thehill.com/news/062404/moore.aspx

[cjules13]

Sure Presidents should get breaks. But if you recall, during Bush's first term in office he was on a month long stay at the ranch when 911 took place. Im sure it wasnt all relaxation, but at the time, I thought it was kind of slackish, before all the hell broke loose.

I like the AO Scott review you posted - that's kinda how I feel about what I've seen and heard so far... I'll only download this flick to watch it to make sure I don't give Moore any daps <_>

But I'm just more alarmed that he's taking advantage of people's dependance on the media and the "believe everything you see on TV" problem that people have today... I guess I don't blame him and he has a right....

Vacation, schmacation, nobody knew exactly when anything would happen, yeah there were warning signs, as there have been in the past, but I don't expect my president to be leaning over the control tower display 24/7 looking for bogeys. We got others guys who do that when he doesn't....

[DudeAsInCool]

But I'm just more alarmed that he's taking advantage of people's dependance on the media and the "believe everything you see on TV" problem that people have today... I guess I don't blame him and he has a right....

Vacation, schmacation, nobody knew exactly when anything would happen, yeah there were warning signs, as there have been in the past, but I don't expect my president to be leaning over the control tower display 24/7 looking for bogeys.  We got others guys who do that when he doesn't....

Who else is willing to ask the tough questions these days? We live in a generation of info-media--Moore is apart of that. But we've come a long way backwards since Woodward and Bernstein. Documentaries rarely make money; his works is one of the few instances where it stands a chance, too. I agree he's a muckracker--but at least he's willing to take things head on and have a pov in comparison to the rest of the sissy media these days.

The Bush administration was so focused on Iraq that they didnt see the terrorism threat coming. In fact, even when it did come, they misread it as coming from Iraq. Their were ample warnings--Hart/Rudman did a report and the Bush administration ignored it. I watched Bush very closely during his first months in office--he was not a workaholic. It wasnt until 911 happened that he had any focus in his presidency at all. I dont blame him for what happened--but I wouldnt salute him as the hardest working man in Washington either. He was a slacker in school and he was a slacker when he first came to DC. I call it hand me down Presidency--there is absolutely nothing on his resume that has prepared him for the job other than his name.

[cjules13]

I hear you - and I'll give him a little credit for at least making me talk about him - he must be some sort of force....

Bush is certainly not the hardest working man! And not the brightest either....

Are there any "What If" stories out there if Gore was prez when 9/11 happened? I wonder how much "better" it would've been.

Up a little early are we Dude? I'm bankin you just got home from the club and the after-set seein how it's 6am for you... or is it 5 w/ daylight savings? Rock on- see you in about 6 hours when you get up... :scratchin:

[DudeAsInCool]

Up a little early are we Dude?  I'm bankin you just got home from the club and the after-set seein how it's 6am for you... or is it 5 w/ daylight savings?  Rock on- see you in about 6 hours when you get up...  :scratchin:

Nah--Ive got an important breakfast mtg this am. And Im generally not a morning person, so I thought Id better wake up early...otherwise I woulda slept through it

[joeyz]

This movie wasn't going to be shown in Athens originally...but a resident somehow discovered the home phone number of the person responsible for booking movies ( we will call him the "movie man") at the biggest theater in town. They distributed the number to hundreds of people in Athens.. the movie man received thousands of calls last week. This week Fahrenheit 911 made it to Athens (Beachwood). Though it made it to an Athens theater, the film was not advertised in the paper or on the billboard, -eventhough I sat amongst a sold-out crowd.....

I saw the film today...I wasn't ready for what I saw... the war clips were almost to much to bare...a dirty look at war... not seen from a distance or in nightvision goggles like on CNN and FOXnews-->rotten bodies in the street - dead babies and women piled in a truck...the Iraqi civilians weeping for lost ones... American bodies drug through the street and beaten..... the American soldiers were so young(dare I say innocent) and unconscious and ignorant.. I couldn't help but cry... a long...deep sobbing cry. All of this for what? -> freedom? security? greed? :sick: This should have never happened.

[Kooperman]

I couldn't help but cry... a long...deep sobbing cry. All of this for what? -> freedom? security? greed? :sick: This should have never happened.

November 2nd is the day to assure that it won't happen again anytime soon.....

[joeyz]

I'll be there at the ballot box... there's no doubt about that