Major Win For "Animal Rights" Organization

[Ken]

It's obvious Wingy knows that all he has said could be reversed onto his position as well.

Someone could respond with this......

I believe the truth is that YOUR beliefs are small. There is so much beyond what YOU hold as true, and much truth beyond what is seen explicitly apparent.

Though, knowing Wingy, this was done intentionally.

Were we bored that day?

[wingnut2600]

the answer may be yes Ken...

BTW... I was meaning atavistic like HST would use... If you read anything he writes, he always uses "atavistic," "fear and loathing" and "shitrain." It seems as if I do mock outrage, I must call a person atavistic, or it just isn't genuine.

File it under "homage."

[KiwiCoromandel]

Calling Dr Gonzo......an interview with an atavistic hunter .s. thompson .........

by Pete Cobus

A can of Schlitz is on the counter, next to the fridge. A puddle of condensation forms at its base in the balmy Washington night, a kind of reflecting pool before an aluminum monolith that sanctifies endless weeknights of low-octane, underpaid alcoholism.

I have been trying to reach the doctor for several weeks now, usually leaving messages with sweet Anita, his sober, rational better half and sidekick on the compound in Woody Creek, Colorado.

"Usually what will happen when you call Hunter S. Thompson for an interview - and this is a trend that I've noticed over the past decade or so - is that you call at the appointed time, and the machine will pick up. But leave a message and if he's in the room, he'll pick up when he hears your voice," Anita warned me. "Then he'll tell you call back in a half hour."

It didn't happen that way. Outfitted with a good book, plenty of Schlitz and a resolve to wait the old man out if it took all night, when I called at the appointed time, Anita picked up again.

"Hunter's on the other phone with Sandy Berger," former Clinton Administration Security Adviser, she said. "Call back in an hour."

It was almost midnight, the beer not getting any cooler.

"Okay," I said.

An hour passes. I dial Hunter again. The machine clicks on and culminates in another, iniquitous beep:

Programmed, mechanized greeting: No on is here to take your message right now. Please leave your name and number -- BEEP .

PC: Hey Hunter, it's Pete again, hello...

Static screeching, phone wrenched from the cradle....

HST: Ho. What's that?

PC: Hi.

HST: Wait a minute. Yeah, wait. Hold on a minute. Who is this?

PC: Pete. While You Were Sleeping magazine.

HST: Yeah, oh good. Can you call back in ten minutes?

PC: Sorry?

HST: I'm talking about your subject right here. I'm telling you I'm talking about it right now, man. I said call me back in ten minutes.

PC: I'll call back in ten minutes.

20 Minutes Later. Call Number Three. Beer Number Four.

Mechanized greeting. A loud beep followed by a staticky, vacuous silence. A weird click and screeching, phone wrenched from the cradle....

HST: Ho. Look, hello. I was just setting up a...uhh...a kind of a trip. With me. I'm going to go down to Little Rock to meet the General. But I just got a bright idea. The woman I was talking to there, the woman is deeply into politics and sort of a personal friend and staff member of Wesley Clark.

PC: So do you need to get back to that?

HST: I interrupted that so I could talk to you. I'm getting pretty excited. I just proposed that I might be in New York for the Paris Review, a celebration of the magazine's 50th.

PC: Yes.

HST: Yeah. Anyway, it's a big deal in New York. You'll have a lot of big press. Big-time press.

PC: Do you need to get back to wrapping that thing up, man?

HST: No. No, I'm bringing Wesley Clark with me and introducing him to the literary crowd.

PC: Wesley Clark was in DC the other day. Do you think he's dynamic enough to beat Bush?

HST: Well.... (thoughtful, impregnated pause)

PC: I mean, he's got NATO command under his belt, so he can take him to task on the war and everything, but the guy's got no political experience.

HST: Well, uh...yeah, that's right. I recognize that, but given the doomsday situation we face, and the American politics here, this shit is just not working. Every state in the union is broke, and these fuckers just keep borrowing money from the taxpayers. This a bloody disastrous experiment, a robbery right in front of our eyes. Including the national treasury. Shit, they've busted too many people. They've been too greedy. So somebody's got to beat the bastard this year. I didn't believe that before, and I'm trying to figure who it's going to be. I always like to know about the presidential campaigns. So that's what I'm doing now. I apologize for putting you off, but this is too important for me not to follow through. I guess I got a plane to Little Rock and New York, maybe maybe maybe....

So now...is Wes Clark qualified to be president? Anybody from "W" to Woody Creek, to Little Rock, to New York, unless the general can attend the Paris Review party - which is one of my great dreams - he's a qualified person.... if he's qualified: Oooo!!! who knows?! But if he has staff people who can do that... If the people on his staff can do that, you see I know all those guys from the Clinton era.

PC: Right. What about Dean?

HST: Yeah, definitely.

PC: Okay, so the guy is liberal, but in terms of fiscal discipline, he'll give new conservatives a run for their money.

HST: All these terms! You know, all of this 20th century terminology is not really applicable. It's like after the Civil War, the Whigs were no longer applicable. They were a big power before, but there's going to be a shift in definitions. I think it's going to depend now on if the people in who are in power have any will to attack the problems, including any personally vested interest, and that I think Clark does have.

Clark strikes me as the one person in this election who really can't afford to lose.

PC: Because his ego's too sensitive, as the rumors stipulate?

HST: No. Because he has no power base to fall back on. Uh, Kerry is still a fuckin' senator. He will be if he loses.

PC: Speaking of which, Kerry hasn't said much for himself. He clings to middle ground. He's not an individual.

HST: I've found out a lot of things about Kerry. Do me a favor. Call me back on xxx-xxxx.

PC: xxx-xxxx.

HST: And then I can reach across my desk here. So if you call me back on my right-hand phone, I'll talk to you in a second.

PC: Take care.

HST: Same thing. Right.

Prolonged silence followed by dialing.

Elderly black woman: Hello.

PC: Hello. Anita?

Elderly black woman: Hi. Who is this?

PC: This is Pete.

Elderly black woman: Pete, I think you have the wrong phone number.

PC: Thank you.

Elderly black woman: MmHmm.

Prolonged silence followed by dialing.

Machine picks up, prolonged grating screech, phone wrenched from the cradle...

HST: (Rhythmically snapping his fingers)

PC: Hello?......The reason I called you in the first place is because I wanted to get somebody to do this sort of meditation on the Patriot Act as the new McCarthyism, or the new Hitlerism....Hello?

HST: Yeah, yeah, yeah...

PC: Whew, shit....thought I lost you.

HST: Yeah, I'm right here with you. I'm just thinking.

PC: I feel that this sucks. I typed up these questions that I wanted to hit you with, and I hate to stop conversation to recite a question.

HST: Well, shoot, so do I.

PC: Do you mind if do it, though?

fast building-block kind of conversations here recently - you know, just in the last hour or so. I'm kind of used to a pretty fast pace. But, I'm trying to make a judgement myself between Dean and Clark. Because, I do more than predict; I know elections are a lot more than that, but that's a big part of it. So I've kind of had good experience with people I've endorsed as a gambler.

PC: And is there a gain for you, personally? Good prescience?

HST: I just like to be right. And, I'm looking back over this book of columns that's going to be published later this year for ESPN - sports columns - and, Jesus Christ, just looking through them, into the politics in it, it's inappropriate, they say, for a sports magazine. But I've done it anyway, and it's very accurate. Yeah, it's important for me to be right. 'Cause that's my tradition, that's what I do.

PC: Listen, you were talking about the impending 'big darkness' in "Hey Rube," but I need to ask you this question. I was born in 1975. If you were to take yourself back to the Vietnam era, back to the Cold War, what's scarier to you about the current state of world affairs? The fact that Bush II and the new GOP represent a refined, well-organized brand of fascism? Or the fact that they wield these policies of unilateral military action, eradication of civil rights, etc...before a nation that doesn't appear to give a shit?

HST: Well, we have a problem there. Yeah. You know, the Bush doctrine you were talking about, and the Patriot Act, they're really one and the same. It's martial law. You know, that's where you get your military tribunals, that's where you get your wartime translations of the Patriot Act. You know, legally, in terms of war and peace, the Patriot Act defines a worldwide policy. But, in terms of law - of who can be held and who can't - the Patriot Act is the civilian implementation of the...

PC: The what implementation?

HST: "Civilian." Yeah, I'm a military man. Imperialists run the Pentagon. We have a [unintelligible phrase] Rumsfeld and Cheney and those swine. But this is contrary to all constitutional principles, contrary to all case law, in terms of civil liberties or legal process. The Patriot Act overrides the due process aspects of the American constitution and the legal process. You can't just grab people off of the streets and hold 'em for as long as it takes. Which is part of the Patriot Act, too. That's an exact reality.

PC: Is it safe to call it social regression?

HST: Yeah, that's a good phrase for it. What I've always called these things is an "atavistic endeavor."

PC: Atavistic endeavor, hm?

HST: E-n-d-e-a-v-o-r.

PC: Hahh! Ha!

HST: Yeah. An atavistic endeavor, you familiar with that?

PC: Well, not really.

HST: Well, atavism is an....

PC: I know atavism. But what do you mean "atavistic endeavor" as a term politically?

HST: Well, this is going back to the Stone Age for the concepts of law. This goes back to Gengus Khan. That was the way he handled legal accusations and the process of guilty or innocent. And just thinking here.... In the Stone Age - I'm just playing with this thinking as I'm talking to you - atavistic endeavor is an attempt to go back to the past. You know, the processes of the past. Back to the good-old primitive days, when men were men and things were simple.

So, these Jesus freaks, these primitive hillbillies - really, worse than hillbillies: hellboys - they don't know anything, really. They're ignorant. And they don't know that what they're trying has been tried many times before. Yeah, it's called fascism. It's called state socialism or - fuck, I hate to say this – but, theocracy. The separation of church and state has been the centerpiece of the American nation for 200 years. So we just try to brush aside 200 years of not just American but, shit, the whole world history. And you simply can't, anymore, get away with it....you know, it's not like a monarch, you can't just tax the peasants until they believe. They can't force them to work for nothing, confiscate their crops. You know, "all lands are royal lands," that worked back in Robin Hood's day in the Sherwood Forest. But it's not going to work when a bunch of cowboys with greasy oil hands reach out to seize nations that go back to, shit, 5,000 years before this alleged Jesus Christ. Shit, I don't mean to offend you.

PC: No. I'm agnostic. And people do talk about Iraq as the ancient land of Mesopotamia, and the people there fighting for a land and not a leader.

HST: Yeah, they still have the burning bush there. They have the oil that burns on the surface of the ground. You can take pictures of it: lake of fire. It's right above or somewhere around Tikrit. Or a little more northwest. A friend of mine went over and took pictures of it.

PC: Have you discussed any of this with Pat Buchanan?

HST: Godamnit, you know I haven't, and I should. I will. I must.

PC: Has he been laying low?

HST: Well, Patrick is too honest for this administration. He's too, uh...he really does love this country. He hasn't used it to bleed money off of other people and to get rich at other people's expense. Patrick is a Democrat in a way. I mean, a little "d." I've always liked him a lot and respected him a lot. I'm a friend to him and should talk to him. I will.

p>PC: Well, look, which brings me to a question. I know Kerouac considered himself a patriot. Do you consider yourself a patriot? I know Kerouac's brand of patriotism expanded the concept for a lot of people who didn't understand it well.

HST: Kerouac was a drunken asshole. And it's unfortunate, but he got that way in his - not old age - but, he went back to live with his mother in Florida. He turned into a dunce. He went and supported Goldwater. Nah, he was one of these uninformed Nazis.

PC: You're someone who's hard to pigeonhole politically.

HST: Oh good.......

[slum_goddess]

great find, kiwibank, thank you; i always LOVE HST; he's one of my alltime heroes (i never read this before).

but this: 'I recognize that, but given the doomsday situation we face, and the American politics here, this shit is just not working. Every state in the union is broke, and these fuckers just keep borrowing money from the taxpayers. This a bloody disastrous experiment, a robbery right in front of our eyes. Including the national treasury. Shit, they've busted too many people. They've been too greedy. So somebody's got to beat the bastard this year...'

was a nice thought until the end.

[Ken]

the answer may be yes Ken...

I hear you.

Sometimes I antagonize, prod, etc.

It can be amusing.

I’m curious though, if your statement about respecting all life, and not wanting said life forms killed is a genuine expression of belief, how does that fit in with your stance on abortion (with regards to past Zeropaid posts, which at the very least, put you on the “pro choice” side of the spectrum)?

I see a conflict of interest considering a fertilized egg is a life form at the very least (even if you don't want to call "it" human).

Do tell Wingy, if you wish.

Edited February 12, 2005 by Ken

[wingnut2600]

I hear you.

Sometimes I antagonize, prod, etc.

It can be amusing.

I’m curious though, if your statement about respecting all life, and not wanting said life forms killed is a genuine expression of belief, how does that fit in with your stance on abortion (with regards to past Zeropaid posts, which at the very least, put you on the “pro choice” side of the spectrum)?

I see a conflict of interest considering a fertilized egg is a life form at the very least (even if you don't want to call "it" human).

Do tell Wingy, if you wish.

ooooooh... Ken, I never expected this from you... this is quite telling.

I respect all life and want everything that is born to be respected, but I believe that everything gestating inside a person is their individual responsibility.

That is the cool thing about being pro-choice... I would not kill an unborn fetus, but that does not preclude others from doing so. Life is an abstract thing... even when we are alive, some people are not living.

Honestly, I would not encourage another to do so, but that does not give myself the ability to take away another's right to terminate their pregnancy before the lifeform is born.

Basically, I believe people have rights over their own bodies. I do not have the right to say a fetus should die or not. I do not have the right to say what they ingest, inhale etc. is wrong or right...

What is a fetus? Is it really alive? If it could not live outside of the womb is it living? If it could is it? I have this convo with my wife and I realize there is quite a bit of grey... but I am not the one to define this issue. Each person is the definer of their reality. The law is even abstract.

I believe that an entity that could live outside of the womb if disconnected with the mother is alive, but if a person has extenuating circumstances, this can change... I believe in compassion Ken.

We are all human and should try to help each other out... it is really not black and white.

Edited February 12, 2005 by wingnut2600

[slum_goddess]

We are all human and should try to help each other out...

what wingnut said. :)

[Redneck4sure]

Oh hell, screw that. :shootin:

[Ken]

Each person is the definer of their reality. The law is even abstract.

I find this to be incorrect.

Try defining a reality that violates a law where you live.

See how far that takes you; no farther than your own mind, and then wherever else if you're executed by others.

You see, I think you've just admitted to not having to draw lines, yet at the same time, you are drawing lines.

You can’t escape at least some form of form or order.

Absolution exists. I know this makes you sad but, oh well. Human brains work better with some absolution.

but I believe that everything gestating inside a person is their individual responsibility.

I remember this. You made a comment (Zeropaid days) to the effect that anything not breathing on it's own/not outside the womb was fair game.

Of course, you quickly backed away from this toward the middle somewhat, but this comment returns to the forefront, just not worded the same.

You see, I was once a fetus; we were all once a fetus.

See the connection? A fetus is indeed a developing human, and at the very least, deserving of the title of "life form", inside a woman's body or not.

Whenever I think of this issue, I realize one thing:

There will never be a compromise. This is a fundamental differing about life, and I am your adversary whether I like it or not.

Edited February 13, 2005 by Ken

[Ken]

I believe in compassion Ken.

Your idea of compassion and my idea of compassion differ greatly then.

[DudeAsInCool]

Try defining a reality that violates a law where you live.

I would except I live in Tinseltown, where there is no reality and laws seem abstract