Rene appreciation thread.

[treveinta]

This is take directly from Ernie - www.ehowa.com

Ah, Rene. You Silly Bastard.

As I'm sure you're all aware by now, there was a UMASS student who published an article this week which pretty much ripped Pat Tillman as a Rambo-wannabe who got what he had coming to him.

I think what makes Tillman's story so remarkable comes not in what he gave up as a soldier -- he's given no more or no less than the other 100+ killed in Afghanistan -- but comes from what he gave up to become a soldier. That my friends, is what's making him stand out. We live in a world where the Kobe Bryants, and the Mike Tysons, and the Ray Lewis', and the Jayson Williams' dominate our nightly news. Then to suddenly flip the channel and see a professional athlete like Tillman giving everything up for his country -- we know he sure as hell didn't so it for money or fame as he already had both -- is a pretty humbling thing. That's what people are finding so extraordinary.

Anyway, the full text of Rene's Gonzalez's article (BTW, Rene is a name for girls or French boys) can be found on UMass's website, but it has been down since experiencing an ENORMOUS load of traffic after his slam was picked up by CNN, ESPN, Sports Illustrated, and various other national news media. And so, for those of you who haven't seen it...

“Pat Tillman is not a hero: He got what was coming to him"

By Rene Gonzalez

April 28, 2004 

When the death of Pat Tillman occurred, I turned to my friend who was watching the news with me and said, "How much you want to bet they start talking about him as a 'hero' in about two hours?" Of course, my friend did not want to make that bet. He'd lose. In this self-critical incapable nation, nothing but a knee-jerk "He's a hero" response is to be expected.

I've been mystified at the absolute nonsense of being in "awe" of Tillman's "sacrifice" that has been the American response. Mystified, but not surprised. True, it's not everyday that you forgo a $3.6 million contract for joining the military. And, not just the regular army, but the elite Army Rangers. You know he was a real Rambo, who wanted to be in the "real" thick of things. I could tell he was that type of macho guy, from his scowling, beefy face on the CNN pictures. Well, he got his wish. Even Rambo got shot in the third movie, but in real life, you die as a result of being shot. They should call Pat Tillman's army life "Rambo 4: Rambo Attempts to Strike Back at His Former Rambo 3 Taliban Friends, and Gets Killed."

But, does that make him a hero? I guess it's a matter of perspective. For people in the United States, who seem to be unable to admit the stupidity of both the Afghanistan and Iraqi wars, such a trade-off in life standards (if not expectancy) is nothing short of heroic. Obviously, the man must be made of "stronger stuff" to have had decided to "serve" his country rather than take from it. It's the old JFK exhortation to citizen service to the nation, and it seems to strike an emotional chord. So, it's understandable why Americans automatically knee-jerk into hero worship.

However, in my neighborhood in Puerto Rico, Tillman would have been called a "pendejo," an idiot. Tillman, in the absurd belief that he was defending or serving his all-powerful country from a seventh-rate, Third World nation devastated by the previous conflicts it had endured, decided to give up a comfortable life to place himself in a combat situation that cost him his life. This was not "Ramon or Tyrone," who joined the military out of financial necessity, or to have a chance at education. This was a "G.I. Joe" guy who got what was coming to him. That was not heroism, it was prophetic idiocy.

Tillman, probably acting out his nationalist-patriotic fantasies forged in years of exposure to Clint Eastwood and Rambo movies, decided to insert himself into a conflict he didn't need to insert himself into. It wasn't like he was defending the East coast from an invasion of a foreign power. THAT would have been heroic and laudable. What he did was make himself useful to a foreign invading army, and he paid for it. It's hard to say I have any sympathy for his death because I don't feel like his "service" was necessary. He wasn't defending me, nor was he defending the Afghani people. He was acting out his macho, patriotic crap and I guess someone with a bigger gun did him in.

Perhaps it's the old, dreamy American thought process that forces them to put sports greats and "larger than life" sacrificial lambs on the pedestal of heroism, no matter what they've done. After all, the American nation has no other role to play but to be the cheerleaders of the home team; a sad role to have to play during conflicts that suffer from severe legitimacy and credibility problems.

Matters are a little clearer for those living outside the American borders. Tillman got himself killed in a country other than his own without having been forced to go over to that country to kill its people. After all, whether we like them or not, the Taliban is more Afghani than we are. Their resistance is more legitimate than our invasion, regardless of the fact that our social values are probably more enlightened than theirs. For that, he shouldn't be hailed as a hero, he should be used as a poster boy for the dangerous consequences of too much "America is #1," frat boy, propaganda bull. It might just make a regular man irrationally drop $3.6 million to go fight in a conflict that was anything but "self-defense." The same could be said of the unusual belief of 50 percent of the American nation that thinks Saddam Hussein was behind Sept. 11. One must indeed stand in awe of the amazing success of the American propaganda machine. It works wonders.

Al-Qaeda won't be defeated in Afghanistan, even if we did kill all their operatives there. Only through careful and logical changing of the underlying conditions that allow for the ideology to foster will Al-Qaeda be defeated. Ask the Israelis if 50 years of blunt force have eradicated the Palestinian resistance. For that reason, Tillman's service, along with that of thousands of American soldiers, has been wrongly utilized. He did die in vain, because in the years to come, we will realize the irrationality of the War on Terror and the American reaction to Sept. 11. The sad part is that we won't realize it before we send more people like Pat Tillman over to their deaths.

Rene Gonzalez is a UMass graduate student.

And in case you're wondering what qualifies Mr Gonzalez to offer his opinion with such authority on these matters of national consequence, he's got a degree in African-American Music.

No seriously, that's all he's got.

Anyway, I was immediately struck with the irony that here's a kid writing about sacrifice, when his own idea of the concept would be to stay in on a Saturday night to finish his fucking homework. I also kind of chuckled to myself, because this moron had no idea the world of shit he had just gotten himself into. There were many, many, many calls for me to flame the author of this editorial abortion. And yet somehow, I felt reluctant to flame this piece of shit.

I know, I'm amazed too.

Truth be told, I'm not entirely sure why I'm not frothing at the mouth to pounce on this guy. I know many of you will see the similarities between this situation and the one with Peter Kirstein, and I do too, but I also see one major difference. Kirstein was a figure of authority speaking to an impressionable student and I guess I was afraid of the possibility of someone adopting his warped sense of morality as their own.

This time, it's the impressionable student raising his voice, and I guess that makes it different. Not to mention the ideas he expressed in this article were so far off base, there's no way anyone with a shred of decency could read it and not feel dirty afterwards, let alone take them to heart. I guess I'm not quite sure how to explain it. I guess there's a part of me that thinks punishing this young man for voicing his opinion -- however misguided it may be -- would be more disrespectful of the 700+ soldiers who have fallen in Iraq, then his floundering attempt at an article could ever be.

Now as the First Amendment guarantees, you may totally disagree with my reasoning and have full recourse to express your ideas otherwise. I fully don't expect everyone to agree with me on this, considering God knows I don't fully understand it myself. But in an effort to deliver to you, my thriving masses, should you choose to exercise your right to voice your disagreement with Mr Gonzalez's opinions -- culled from the UMASS directories and his personal website before he took it down -- I present to you...

Rene Gonzalez

[email protected]

[email protected]

413-253-9639

what total hippey douche bag, i feel that this guy should be tar'd feather'd and hung by his hippey cock

[DudeAsInCool]

there is a famous song called 'walk away, renee' ;) ..and treiv, i was a young hippy when it was fashionable... lol

[treveinta]

dude, sometimes i wish murder was legal....

[DudeAsInCool]

Obviously, the student is living in a make-believe world and its disgusting of him to think of the soldier in that way...

[Shawn]

Point of reference, which guy are you two talking about? The student or the author?

I agree with a lot of the students' point of view. I wouldn't go so far as to say Tillman 'got what he deserved', but some of it is pretty close to my own thoughts. I think the author talking about Rene is a dick, trying to shoot down the younger guy's education. If some of the inbred yokels are allowed a voice, why shouldn't a guy with a degree? Any degree.

[DudeAsInCool]

Well, the thesis as I see it, is that Rene said 'the guy got what he deserved' then cynically predicted he would become a national hero--thats pretty low. I also think the guy who criticized Rene was out of line for saying all he has is a degree in Afro American music--as if that degree made him unintelligent. Rene did make some good comparison points re: native soldiers vs American soldiers... Still, I think Tillman served admirably, even if his big picture differed from mine...

[treveinta]

Ernie critizied the studing (author) for the fact that his whole article was to critize tillman and the soilders for what they were doing, he never at onced said anything about the politics of the matter, he just went on bashing the soilders for what they are doing, now if a few of Americas Best showed up at his place of living, i got $200 bucks and my computer to say he wouldn't feel the same way after.

[Shawn]

Shit, I don't know what to say. I thought this Rene wrote elegantly, even if what he was saying wasn't expected to be popular.

What does possess a millionaire to volunteer to fight on the front line in an elite unit? It could be argued that it was out of love of country, but he covered that too.

Matters are a little clearer for those living outside the American borders. Tillman got himself killed in a country other than his own without having been forced to go over to that country to kill its people. After all, whether we like them or not, the Taliban is more Afghani than we are. Their resistance is more legitimate than our invasion, regardless of the fact that our social values are probably more enlightened than theirs. For that, he shouldn't be hailed as a hero, he should be used as a poster boy for the dangerous consequences of too much "America is #1," frat boy, propaganda bull. It might just make a regular man irrationally drop $3.6 million to go fight in a conflict that was anything but "self-defense." The same could be said of the unusual belief of 50 percent of the American nation that thinks Saddam Hussein was behind Sept. 11. One must indeed stand in awe of the amazing success of the American propaganda machine. It works wonders.

Was America going to lose the fight if he didn't go? No, the U.S.'s military might goes pretty much unquestioned. The rebuttal itself says "he's given no more or no less than the other 100+ killed in Afghanistan." I guess I can't differentiate very well between Tillman and any other killed.

I also had my hackles raised a little that the rebuttal focused on belittling the student rather than countering any points. It's exactly the mentality he was talking about.

(BTW, Rene is a name for girls or French boys)

[ASUmusicMAN]

This issue is really quite close to home as Tillman went to my school and played ball across the street from where i'm living right now...

and let me tell you, I don't care if you got 80 damn PhDs you DO NOT blast someone who has just given his life for his country, ESPECIALLY when his family is still grieving...I don't give a shit if your pro war or anti war or anti american...at the end of the day that shit don't fly. I understand freedom of speech and freedom of expression...just because you have a right to be a complete and total f*ing asshole doesn't mean you should be. This author deserves the firestorm of S he is getting

[treveinta]

the author is trying to belittle the fact that Tillman died for his country, he makes it seem like the fact he died is minor the saying "he's given no more or no less than the other 100+ killed in Afghanistan." pisses me off, as a military man, comming from a long line of military men and women, that offends me greatly, he makes it seem like those 100 men and women didn't give much at all, they gave their lives for and country that gave them so much, even the ones who didn't die in war gave alot, comming from military i've seen first hand the stress it puts on family members, not having lost one in combat, it is still stressfull the long nights wondering if you father will make it home hug you and tuck you into bed, wondering if you'll make it home to hug and kiss your wife/husband or teach your kid to drive, stuff like that, so saying "he's given no more or no less than the other 100+ killed in Afghanistan." makes it seem like those who died didn't give much at all.

[nate]

i totally agree with renee

and, since this is still america, renee has as much right to state his opinion as any one of you, whether you agree with him or not

as soon as people start censoring opinions they disagree with for no other reason than that, they are no better than the taliban

(p.s. does the fact that he was famous and died somehow make him more important than all the other poor saps that threw their lives away for nothing? maybe their headlines should be as big and plentiful as his)

Edited May 3, 2004 by nate

[DudeAsInCool]

Pat Tillman, the former Arizona Cardinals football player who died in April while a U.S. soldier fighting in Afghanistan, likely was killed by friendly fire, an Army investigation has concluded

News of that finding was disseminated Friday to some members of Congress and some Tillman family members just as the Memorial Day weekend was to begin, including today's dedication ceremonies in Washington of the World War II Memorial.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0529tillman29.html

[Redneck4sure]

I had read that earlier. Pat was a Hell of a guy.

edit: Look at this pic and tell me if you think anybody would call him an idiot to his face.

Edited May 30, 2004 by Redneck4sure

[treveinta]

(p.s. does the fact that he was famous and died somehow make him more important than all the other poor saps that threw their lives away for nothing? maybe their headlines should be as big and plentiful as his)

nate, you are an asshole, and the sad part is you don't even know it... I am not slamming you for agreeing with Rene, In fact, I applaud you for that, what I am in serious dissagreance with is how you worded what you felt, NEVER EVER refer to someone who has died in combat as a "poor sap" or as "throwing their lives away for nothing" ok? that makes it seem as if it was nothing! those people desirve more respect than that, those mofo's out there in US Army uniforms, Marines, and other branches of the US armed forces are what makes an great country even greater, regardless of how you feel about the politics of why we are at war, realize no matter who the enemy is those Bad Ass men and women have a duty, and that is to defened their country as seen fit by the goverment, they don't call the shots of where they go and why, they just go and do, that takes a lot of courage and faith in your country to give them that kind of control over your life, so never again will you speak of them like that, or I will be sure to make sure some of the "worlds finest" pay you a nice visit...

-Semper Fi