This Isn't America

[ASUmusicMAN]

Supposedly a book recently came out about how badass Rumsfeld is. I'm sure lots people here have their disagreements, but supposedly the man has been a genius as far as reforming the military (something your probably not gonna read about on drudge). Supposedly he took the special ops training approach and applied it to other divisions (mind you this is simplified...but kinda the jist as far as I understand it).

At first I was skeptical, but my roommate, who is technically in the army (but achieved that ROTC non deployable status thing) says that his COs have been talking that they've noticed changes...good ones...so he seems like a real interesting guy too

[ASUmusicMAN]

Wooow...koop, looooong but informative stuff

Seems like he is awesome, just is gettin' screwed a bit eh?

[DudeAsInCool]

Rice and Powell are more moderate, but I have issues with Rumsfeld. He was part of the core group that wanted to install a democracy in the Middle East--they wrote a core paper in 1995. This goal superceded the 'terrrorist' issue.. In addition, I thought the 'shock and awe' campaign was disgusting. Why not just go in and get Saddam and his coterie? Last of all, Rumsfeld had absolutely no plan for what to do after they won the war...that's why problems persist to this day, and why billions are being diverted to Iraq instead of the war on terrorism.

On the Torticelli front--the lack of CIA recruits in Guatemala is totally different from the lack of recruits in the Middle East. My guess is that the numbers didnt change their between Bush, Sr and Clinton.

Now--on the George, Sr. front: It's my understanding that the first world trade center bombing occured because the CIA let a number of the bad guys in the country to get info on the Middle East insurgency scene, and were watching their developments at an Arab Mosque in NY...apparently, they didnt watch that closely. Yet people blamed Clinton for that bombing, even thought it occured only several months into his first term...

I dont believe in blaming new presidents for unseen developments...but in the case of the Bush regime, they were so hung up on avenging George, Sr's mistakes in Iraq, it is my opinion that they lost complete focus...

[ASUmusicMAN]

Interesting about GB sr

As far as Rummy goes...I don't know any of his history or anything, I just know that that particular thing was something I defintiely valued him doing. As far as Post-Iraq i'm not quite sure if that's entirely his fault...definitely a group effort (or failure :P ) on that one in my opinion.

[DudeAsInCool]

Rumsfeld has a big push on to modernize the army with technology--maybe he's onto something--who knows? Did you know that when Cheney worked for George Bush, Sr. he led the charge on base closings and the cutting back of the military? Pretty ironic... I grew up in Carlisle, Pa where the US Army War College is. It's sort of a think tank & post graduate school for Lt Col's and Col's who want to be generals. (I went out with the General's daughter? Got high with her sister and the MPs. Sorry, i couldnt resist). There was a critical paper of the Bush regime out of Carlisle, recently, but the administration buried it...which brings me to my other grievance against the Bush administration...Spin Control.

Do you know they have doubled the number of media control people in the white house compared to Clinton. There is an interesting article in the New Yorker, which came out early this year, which looks at this issue in depth. The whole corps there is lockstep on message--no one speaks out of line. And if someone does, like Clarke recently did, theyall come out swinging.

They are also probably the most secretive group that's ever been in the White House. Remember how Cheney refused to reveal what energy people he invited to the White House? They're like that on everything. So, why should I trust an administration that isnt open to the American people? The recent Condi Rice episode (since reversed after public polls!!!!) to not appear before the 911 commission is yet another example of their arrogance. If Bush really wants the whole truth to come out about 911, why even think of holding her back????!!!

[ASUmusicMAN]

This is prolly for the other thread...but hearing stuff like that makes me not wanna vote for Bush...but when put up against Kerry, i'll probably end up voting for him...

Thats crazy about the media thing, I really had no clue. Seems like someones a bit paranoid.

Pretty awesome about getting high with them peeps :dudeasincool:

If that base closing stuff ever got out he'd be finished...my whole hometown starts burning pictures of people who threaten base closures

[DudeAsInCool]

Another ironic thing--other than Colin Powell, nobody in the Bush administration ever was in the armed forces...yet they point the finger at people like Clinton... Kerry was a war hero--why wouldnt you vote for him?

[ASUmusicMAN]

I'd rather vote for a man that does the right thing for the wrong reason than a man who does the wrong thing for the right reason.

[DudeAsInCool]

Okay...then specifically, what dont you like about Kerry?