Bush Vs Kerry

[Malicious Intent]

Two US television networks - NBC and Fox - have called Ohio for President Bush, but Mr Kerry's campaign has responded defiantly.

Gotta love 'em

[Ken]

Two news networks I see project a win in Ohio for Bush by more than 100,000 votes and subsequently the election.

It looks like the end for the scream-faced-man.

Now we can get down to business..............that is more outsourcing, bigger deficit, shit on health care, more dead bodies, increase in poverty, and of course everyone's favorite ban on gay marriage. Oh, and stem-cell research? What stem-cell research?

Admittedly I’m more worried about a Bush presidency than a Kerry presidency but I stuck by my conscience. I didn't agree with Kerry (or any other candidate) enough to vote for him/her. Not like it would have mattered anyway (living in a Democratic state).

[Ken]

Congratulations to the american public

Congratulations to the percentage of the American public that voted for Bush.

Certain individuals better be careful when trying to generalize "blame" for Bush getting reelected.

We're not a collective, we're people. We differ, sometimes greatly.

[Kooperman]

Wednesday, November 03, 2004

The Reform Party

The Moose offers some day after observations.

It is becoming increasingly clear that the elephant has prevailed. The Moose comforts the donkey that the sun will still rise, seasons will change, babies will be born and life will go on. No need to check yourselves into the Betty Ford Depression Clinic.

Kerry ran a hard and admirable campaign. He endured the vicious and ferocious Republican swift boat attack with dignity. It is a stain on the honor of Republicans and the right wing punditry who promoted this vile smear on a man who risked his life and limb for country. John Kerry is an American patriot and hero.

The reality is that it was always going to be an uphill struggle to defeat a sitting commander in chief during wartime. The Moose would fault the Kerry campaign for never developing a compelling theme. When incumbents have been defeated in the recent past (Ford, Carter and Bush I), their challengers offered a distinct vision as well as a biting critique.

The Moose is struck that the Democrats came this close despite the incumbent's clear advantage of leading a country at war. It is an indictment of the manner by which this administration has conducted this war that they only barely held onto power. The Moose believes that we cannot allow Iraq to become a failed state, but the Administration must shoot straight with the American people on the price to be paid and the real situation on the ground. The Moose is not holding his breadth.

The Moose notes that the power of social issues far outweighed the factors of the youth vote or the "wired revolution." Obviously, the Moose is fond of the internet, but neither cyberspace nor 527's are substitutes for finding a way to reach middle and lower income voters who are motivated to vote by their perceptions that Democrats are "soft" on moral values. Without changing their principles, Democrats must find a language and a sensitivity to communicate to voters of faith who might agree with the party on economic concerns. And where were the youth voters inspired by the Deaniac Revolution and invisible to pollsters because they own cell phones rather than hard lines? Jor Trippi call your office.

The issue for donkey is neither moving to the right nor to the left. The Democrats have the opportunity to become the true reform party. It is not as if Bush won on a positive mandate. His main message was "vote for me or they will kill you." With an increasingly ossified Republican establishment now fully in control of Washington, Democrats can truly become the insurgent party advocating fundamental reform in political and governmental institutions on behalf of the middle-class. It might be helpful to consult the old Gingrich playbook on how a minority party can seize power. Yes, the Republicans back then had voter mobilization, but they also were a party of ideas and seized the reform agenda.

Democrat governors can also be helpful in encouraging a progressive reform agenda. The state houses is where we will likely find much of the energy in the Democratic party.

So, after sitting shiva for your loss, be of good cheer Democrats. This too shall pass!

http://www.bullmooseblog.com/

[Kooperman]

The Day After

'Don't Mourn, Organize'

by Meteor Blades

Wed Nov 3rd, 2004 at 10:10:13 GMT

OK. I read thousands of comments and dozens of Diaries last night and this morning. And you know something? I’m going to forget I read most of them. Just erase them from memory along with the names of those who posted them. Chalk them up to adrenaline crashes, too much rage and reefer and booze.

Because what I found in my reading was a plethora of bashing Christians, bashing Kerry, bashing gays, bashing Edwards, bashing Kos, bashing America and bashing each other. As well as a lot of people saying they’re abandoning the Democrats, abandoning politics, abandoning the country. This descent into despair and irrationality and surrender puts icing on the Republican victory cake.

Why were we in this fight in the first place? Because terrible leaders are doing terrible things to our country and calling this wonderful. Because radical reactionaries are trying to impose their imperialist schemes on whoever they wish and calling this just. Because amoral oligarchs are determined to enhance their slice of the economic pie and calling this the natural order. Because flag-wrapped ideologues want to chop up civil liberties and call this security. Because myopians are in charge of America’s future.

We lost on 11/2. Came in second place in a crucial battle whose damage may still be felt decades from now. The despicable record of our foes makes our defeat good reason for disappointment and fear. Even without a mandate over the past four years, they have behaved ruthlessly at home and abroad, failing to listen to objections even from members of their own party. With the mandate of a 3.6-million vote margin, one can only imagine how far their arrogance will take them in their efforts to dismantle 70 years of social legislation and 50+ years of diplomacy.

Still, Tuesday was only one round in the struggle. It’s only the end if we let it be. I am not speaking solely of challenging the votes in Ohio or elsewhere – indeed, I think even successful challenges are unlikely to change the ultimate outcome, which is not to say I don’t think the Democrats should make the attempt. And I’m not just talking about evaluating in depth what went wrong, then building on what was started in the Dean campaign to reinvigorate the grassroots of the Democratic Party, although I also think we must do that. I’m talking about the broader political realm, the realm outside of electoral politics that has always pushed America to live up to its best ideals and overcome its most grotesque contradictions.

Not a few people have spoken in the past few hours about an Americanist authoritarianism emerging out of the country’s current leadership. I think that’s not far-fetched. Fighting this requires that we stick together, not bashing each other, not fleeing or hiding or yielding to the temptation of behaving as if “what’s the use?”

It’s tough on the psyche to be beaten.Throughout our country’s history, abolitionists, suffragists, union organizers, anti-racists, antiwarriors, civil libertarians, feminists and gay rights activists have challenged the majority of Americans to take off their blinders. Each succeeded one way or another, but not overnight, and certainly not without serious setbacks.

After a decent interval of licking our wounds and pondering what might have been and where we went wrong, we need to spit out our despair and return – united - to battling those who have for the moment outmaneuvered us. Otherwise, we might just as well lie down in the street and let them flatten us with their schemes.

http://www.dailykos.com/

[Kooperman]

We all followed our hearts and nobody can be criticized for that.

[cjules13]

So much for John Kerry.... <_>

And so much for the Redskins election indicator... been proven for so long, law of averages cathing up. http://www.beatking.com/forums/index.php?s...t=0entry55381

[Amber]

MSNBC exit poll indicates that the youth did not vote. The 18-29  bracked voted the same this year as in 2000, while 30-44 group was down.

How ironic...the age group which stands to lose the most from the Bush administration being reelected stayed away from the polls and allowed it to happen.

Yea, my two hours in line to vote means that nobody in my age bracket voted.....

Does that make sense? No.

We fucking voted.

The turnout here was incredible.

Yes, everyone that voted where I went was in the age bracket in question.

The line was damned long.

That pisses me off.

We didn't vote? Bullshit.

I , at 25 voted too spud....and I got a sticker to prove it LOL :P

[Shawn]

What can I say?

I'm disappointed, even shocked, to find that a majority of American do support the Bush way. For quite awhile I've looked at Bush as being an unwanted leader. Not so to the majority.

:(

[Kooperman]

Yea, my two hours in line to vote means that nobody in my age bracket voted.....

Does that make sense? No.

We fucking voted.

The turnout here was incredible.

Yes, everyone that voted where I went was in the age bracket in question.

The line was damned long.

That pisses me off.

We didn't vote? Bullshit.

I , at 25 voted too spud....and I got a sticker to prove it LOL :P

One of the leading political bloggers in the country is Joshua Micah Marshall...he was one of the observers last night pushing the "youth didn't turn out" story. Here's what he says today:

(November 03, 2004 -- 10:45 AM EDT // link // print)

Before getting to comments on last night's election, I want to make a correction about last evening's comments about the youth vote, comments which were incomplete and partly misleading. Young voters showed up at a far higher level than they did four years ago. But everyone else did too. And so the proportion of the electorate made up by the youth vote did not increase. At least not dramatically -- look at the specific numbers for details. For the Democrats, this was clearly not a good thing. But that doesn't mean that young voters didn't turn out in record proportions.

-- Josh Marshall

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/...0_31.php#003929

[DudeAsInCool]

Congrats to all the Beatkingers who voted for Bush. Curious as to why? Although this wasnt my choice, I take solace in not being part orf the mainstream...because Im not middle of the road about anything

[ASUmusicMAN]

Tons of young people voted...at least by me. My roomie only got home at 9PM to watch returns because he was in line since 4PM...dedication and numbers unhead of in my age group. Another myth I see about the young vote is that the young vote is inehrently Kerry. From what I can tell it's just like everywhere else in the country 50-50 split.

My absentee ballot didn't get returned to my home state (NM, a swinger) in time, but it didn't matter as my vote was a Bush vote, and I just heard my state finally went for Bush.

As to why my indecisive ass finally picked Bush...I still wonder about it. I disagree with a whole gamut of issues that Bush is for...but military and economics trump all of those (IMO) especially economics. You can't call tax cuts for the rich evil, when my folks are not even close to rich, but got tons back (enough for both me and my sister to go to really sweet colleges, and get enough comfort for student loans etc.).

Also y'all probably know, but my Dad works for Sandia National Labs (engineer/intelligence), and Bush has done wonderful things for them, and has never ever voted against or proposed cutting/not funding/removing intelligence and any national labs scientists.

Like I said...I'm so middle of the road, and I didn't really decide until this last weekend, and am really relunctant even talking about it (all the musicians I play with called me names, yelled, screamed...stuff I would rather not relive), but that's somewhat of my thought process about this last week.

[Kooperman]

John Kerry is giving an incredible concession speech, heartfelt and sincere, stately and presidential. The best political party won this election...the best man didn't.

[ASUmusicMAN]

I give John Kerry amazing props for conceding...he is a far better man than I predicted. I think both him and the entire democrat party will benefit a lot from taking this route.

[DudeAsInCool]

I think both him and the entire democrat party will benefit a lot from taking this route.

I think the Republican party should follow suit...

***

In his victory speech, Bush promised to serve all American and earn their trust... that I would like to see.

***

Apparently the predominant factor was morality and that they felt Bush would do a better jo in terms of moral values Ironically, they thought Kerry would do a better job on Iraq and the economy Hard to believe.

[joeyz]

I don't know if I can stomach 4 more years under the "Bledsoe" of the American people... half of us have already opened our eyes.. I just wonder if everyone else will.

Edited November 3, 2004 by joeyz

[DudeAsInCool]

We all followed our hearts and nobody can be criticized for that.

The Bush-Cheney victory will not deter US for fighting things that are right and just...

[Kooperman]

The Bush-Cheney victory will not deter US for fighting things that are right and just...

Amen. The 2006 elections are just around the corner.....

[Yoda]

G dub bush keepin it real with that win homys! haha

I thought for sure Bush lost with all these haters like Eminem and all those damn pop stars but Im sure they feel real dumb now!

Muahahaha

G Dub once again keepin it real in the hood!!

[Kooperman]

Hope you enjoy Iraq a few years from now.

[Yoda]

He aint gonna send us there he got that plan and he gonna get it done. The man sticks to his word

When he said he was gonna attack Iraq, what did he do? attacked Iraq. He'll get us out soon, I feel safer with him then Kerry now. Life is great my friend.

[Kooperman]

mercy.....

[Yoda]

What are you mercying about. Being Prez is kinda hard, ya Clinton did his job and did his job well better the G Dub but maybe he was in a easier situation. Now we got a bunch of terrorist ready to kill Americans, John Kerry or not and there is people out there with nuclear explosives and it seems John Kerry cared more about the public eye on what they feel about wars see G Dub no stuff that we dont thats why he do what he do... he keep it real

sorry about the long paragraph I just had to take all that from the heart, wasnt worrying about all that puncuation garbage.

[DudeAsInCool]

I merged Yoda's Bush victory thread here because there are too many Bush-Kerry Threads....

[Wolfie]

All I can say I am glad I am old. Something for the youngsters to enjoy. :bigsmile:

Us Kerry voters also get exclusive rights on the "I told you so" factor. Its should be a busy four years. ;)

PS. its just me or the site loading slow tonight?